Back to: the book or: 'Acne Sample Diet'
Questioning
the theory
behind the diet
Click on a remark / question below to view Wai's answer.
Hormones are the problem in 100% of teenagers with acne
Protein in the blood does not cause water retention, in fact, it is the opposite
Studies show that acne, insulin resistance and elevated blood androgen levels are connected
You definitely don't have to starve yourself like that
In patients with liver failure, blood protein levels decrease, while resulting in edema
Sebum and skin oil are the same thing
Acne causes edema, not the other way around
'Dirty' protein does not exist ; 'foreign' protein would trigger the immune system
Edema and acne are rarely associated
Someone cleared his skin on a high-protein diet
001;
"protein in the blood does not cause water retention. in fact, it's the opposite. (but Wai, biochemistry expert that he/she is, does not understand the concept of osmosis)."
High blood (and lymph-) protein levels do not cause water to be attracted to the skin, that is true.
However, high blood-protein levels do cause the blood to retain more water, since protein is a water-attracting substance (like salts and sugars, but unlike fats). The more water-attracting substances your body contains, the more water you will retain. Where (locally in the body) the concentration of these water-attracting substances is highest, most water will be retained.
Once the blood and lymph contain much protein, all organs are starting to take up much free amino acids (=protein) from the blood and lymph, for (re)construction purposes. But they do not take up amino acids that are still linked to
each other (peptides, which are also protein). These peptides, which are mostly contained in the lymph, mostly end up in the (true) skin.
Then the concentration of protein in the (true) skin will be elevated, and thus the amount of water in the true skin will become higher too.
Why doesn't the blood distract all that extra water from the true skin? (which is what Gianni thinks)
1. Because the level of protein in both the blood and the skin will be elevated, and they will thus BOTH retain more water, simply because consuming water-aatracting substances makes you consume and retain more water. The amount of water in the body is not fixed.
2. Once the extra protein is reaching the skin, the blood- and lymph-protein levels already are decreasing again, not just because organs take up amino acids, but also because of the protein-decomposing enzymes that are present in all your organs, except for the skin.
"this protein would, by osmosis, attract water OUT of the skin and into the blood"
No because:
1) The undigested protein that end up in the blood, is decomposed by enzymes in the blood. However, the lymph (which absorbs by far the most 'dirty protein')
2) A great part of the 'dirty' protein absorbed in the lymph ends up in the skin, simply because 'dirty' protein is not single amino acids, and the organs only take up single amino acids, for reconstruction purposes.
3) There are no-protein decomposing enzymes in the skin.
4) Thus, the protein level in the water in the true skin will be higher than that in the cells in the outer skin, and in the water in tissue below the skin, and thus there will be water attracted into the true skin, from the outer skin and from below the true skin. This results in a greater water pressure, which causes the pinching off of sebum canals.
002
; "there are a number of papers in the literature which demonstrate a clear connection between diet, insulin resistance and elevated blood androgens"
Of course:
Androgens promote the secretion of sebum. And if the true skin retains more water, the water pressure is higher, pinching off sebum canals. The more sebum you produce, the more likely it can not be efficiently deported through these pinched off sebum canals.
And if the blood-, lymph-, and skin-sugar levels are elevated, one will retain more water, pinching off sebum canals.
003
; "but you definitely don't have to starve yourself"
Absolutely correct. You can even gain weight on my diet, once you have accustomed yourself to the diet.
Weight management is about energy management.
004
; "there's ample scientific literature which documents hyperkeratinization and abnormal skin cell shedding as the cause of blocked sebaceous canals in acne patients"
Cause and results are often mixed up in science.
The abnormal skin shedding in acne is caused by:
1. dehydration of the surface of the skin (the outer skin), due to excessive water-attracting substances in the skin layer below (the true skin), attracting water from the outer skin.
2. a lack of sebum reaching the surface of the skin; sebum protects the skin against dehydration.
This is 'proven' by the fact that the abnormal skin cell shedding does not take place locally where the skin is covered with sufficient oil. Oil also protects the skin against dehydration. In abnormal skin cell shedding the dehydration of the cells is accelerated, which can easily be prevented.
The hyperkeritinization is the result (not the cause) of the prolonged stay of the sebum in the sebum canals.
005
; "in patients with liver damage, where protein synthesis by the liver is impaired and blood protein levels decrease, severe edema results"
Yes, but you are forgetting this: If the liver fails to build sufficient protein (from free amino acids), the ratio of free amino acids relative to big proteins, will be higher. And all these smaller protein molecules bind to much more water than when linked to eachother. (just as 3 free glucose molecules attract more water than 6 glucose molecules linked to eachother)
You are also forgetting that that it is not just about protein, but also about the other water-attracting substances. In this case more protein is converted into sugar-like molecules, which also attract water.
006
; "hormones are the problem in 100% of teenagers with
acne"
Not 100% at all.
Scientific research has shown that in 61% of women with acne the level of at least one androgen hormone (like testosterone) is slightly elevated,
(1) which means that in 39% of women with acne the level of all androgens is either equal to, or even below, average.
(1) Thiboutot, D. et al, Androgen metabolism in sebaceous glands from subjects with and without acne. Arch. Dermatol. 1999 / 135 (9) / 1041-1045. , Cibula, D. et al, Prediction of increased levels of androgen in women with acne vulgaris using ultrasound and clinical parameters. (in Czech) Ceska. Gynekol. 1999 / 64 (4) / 242-246.
Acne is caused by the combination of 2 factors:
1. Producing much sebum (strongly influenced by hormones)
2. Pinched off sebum canals (due to water retention in the true skin, which is influenced by diet, stress and hormones)
007
; "sebum and skin oil are the same thing"
No, no. They are both produced by the same glands, but they ARE different. Sebum is more solid, white-grey in color, while oil is colourless, and more fluid. The skin can produce much sebum and little oil, or the other way around.
Your own eyes can see that these substances are different.
008 ; ""In the studies that you refer to regarding facial edema, they concluded that acne CAUSED the facial edema"
Creating a new theory is not about copying someone else's conclusions, but about finding new insights that might explain a certain fact... :
The reference backs up my statement that facial edema is very much related to acne. The scientist thinks the
explanation is that the acne caused the facial edema, but I think it is the other way around.
I use the scientific finding (the high correlation) as back up, not his opinion (that acne causes edema).
Using scientific studies, you need to make a distinction between the facts (stats about the correlation) and the opinions (causal relation).
In science, these are often mixed up.
009
; "Any undigested protein would be viewed by the immune system as a
"foreign'' protein
not true.
A great part of food protein is decomposed into single amino acids, while an other great part is not yet totally digested when it ends up in the bloodstream. Barth, C.A. et al, Milk proteins: nutrtional, clinical, functional and technological aspects. Darmstadt 1988 / 143.
That all protein is completely separated is a well knwon over-simplification, that has been
proven wrong.
That is also why Hartnup disease children can survive: They cannot absorb free tryptophan, but they can absorb peptides containing tryptophan, and thus they do not have to miss out on
tryptophan (which is an essential amino acid).
010
; "These patients were a few RARE examples of people suffering from SEVERE facial edema in association with acne"
Not true. Solid facial edema is rare itself, NOT its association with acne...
Here is a quote from such a study:
"Persistent solid facial edema is a rare condition of unknown cause"
and...
"solid facial edema has most often been associated with acne vulgaris"
from:
Dragan LR, et al, Solid facial edema preceding a diagnosis of retro-orbital B-cell lymphoma. J Am Acad Dermatol 2000 May;42(5 Pt 2):872-4.
You are demonstrating poor logic here. Even if solid facial edema were ALWAYS associated with acne, that doesn't mean that most acne patients suffer from solid facial edema. In fact, the authors of one of the other studies (which you did not cite) say so:
"....solid facial edema is a RARE complication of acne vulgaris.''
Again, you learn nothing if you just copy the views of others. To learn something new, you need to review the conclusions of others, and the facts upon which these are based. In science, results and causes are often mixed up.
The facts are:
1. solid facial edema is rare
2. when solid facial edema occurs, it is most often associated with acne
The quoted scientists think that when solid facial edema and acne come together, acne is the cause and the edema the result, but that is just their conclusion, not a fact. So, you cannot say it is a fact, you can only say this is the opinion of respected scientists.
In my opinion, as often happens, they have mixed up cause and result: Acne is co-caused by retaining too much water, and since solid facial edema is the extreme variety of retaining too much water, logically, edema most often comes with acne.
I cannot prove it yet, just as these scientists cannot prove their opinion, but we need to differentiate facts from opinions, since certainly not all opinions of scientists are correct.
011 ; "wai says that there are "dirty proteins" and all, in meats, but I just read this post by pariseene wherem he is completely clear by avoiding lectins and eatins a high diet of proteins!!......I think your diet does not have to be that strict and you can eat meats too. AS long as you avoid the lectins, that are bad for you??"
That there are 'dirty' proteins in cooked meat, is a fact. But, it is only one aspect of acne. Your acne can also be caused by too much fluctuating blood glucose levels, are consuming salt.
The effectivity of digestion is individually different; in some the protein-decomposing enzymes (in the digestive tract, or those in the blood and lymph) may be far more active, and effective.
Lectin containing foods are starch containing foods, and starch is loads of glucose molecules linked to eachother. Starch spikes the blood glucose level the most.
So, by avoiding lectin-containing foods, you are avoiding the foods that may be the culprit in you: starches (de-stabilizing the blood sugar level)
That is also why Goracergo (a diabetes-1 patient) could initially control his acne with my diet, but when he had less control over his blood sugar level, he could not control his acne anymore.
So, in some the culprit is 'dirty' protein AND salt AND fluctuating blood sugar levels, while in others it may be one or the other. (or much of one and just a little of the other)
"I think your diet does not have to be that strict and you can eat meats too."
Maybe some can, but others cannot.
"AS long as you avoid the lectins, that are bad for you??"
No, there are lots of people that are totally clear on my diet, and if they then only add salt to their diet, they break out.
Or, if they don't consume sufficient fat (to stabilize the blood sugar level), they break out.
Or, if they only add some cooked fish, they break out.
So, it is definitely not JUST the lectins/starch.